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Thread: Favorite Small Boats ?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronnie simpson View Post
    If you want a singlehanded ocean racer that is trailer able, I would recommend Moore 24, Santa cruz 27 or express 27 or Antrim 27. If you can afford to even look at j70 then I would buy an Antrim. Those things are stupid fast. Having said that I am extremely happy with my Moore. . . .

    You need to decide if you want a planing boat or not. I think that is maybe the most important choice.
    Thank you for the reply. As an old dinghy sailor, my first thought was to get a Thistle, Lightning, Highlander, or even Raven. They are all fast but for many reasons are not suitable for single-handed ocean racing and cruising. So, yes, I love planing sailboats. However, I prefer to sit IN a boat rather than ON a boat. (You can sit IN the dinghies noted above.) This summer I sailed a Viper 640 and Open 5.70. They were great fun! But, after sailing them, I realized they are not very comfortable and are not really what I want. The J/70 looks like it is in the same class.

    So, are there any planing boats of the sit IN variety? Since I may have to keep the boat on a trailer and launch and recover it each time at a boat ramp, I would like to identify a few smaller boats with retractable keels that are suitable for racing and cruising. If I can find a crane to lift the boat, or a reasonably priced slip, I can get a fixed keel boat.

    Thanks again,
    Richard
    Last edited by rlltrash; 09-29-2012 at 09:09 PM.

  2. #12
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    I re-read your criteria - do I have this right?

    1) 20'-25'
    2) Ramp-launchable, stored mast-up
    3) Because of (2), lifting or swing keel
    4) Single-handed ocean racing and cruising
    5) Sit-in vs. sit-on cockpit

    Depending on where you sail (how much wind), "ocean" may not fit here and you're probably looking at one boat to mess around with locally and a different boat someday for the ocean racing - this is not a bad approach at all.

    Unless it's a centerboarder, I don't think you can have cockpit seats and a planing boat in this size - the extra structure weighs too much. I can't think of one.

    The closest fit is probably an Ultimate 24. It's a fine boat but I'd not take one to Hawaii, especially solo. Plus there are very few around.

    If you can find a yard with a hoist your options widen significantly.

    What's your budget?
    Last edited by BobJ; 09-30-2012 at 08:48 AM.

  3. #13
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    Richard,

    How about a B25? It is easily trailerable and has a lifting keel... Though no "sit-in" cockpit. There are several in So Cal although I don't know of any for sale right now. It rates 138, the same as my SC-27 down here. We had one in the PSSA for some time and it did very well once dialed-in. It has its sweet spots. It would walk away from the entire fleet in the light air drifters and would start surfing and full-out planing long before my SC-27 (winds in the mid to upper teens). In winds inbetween we were very close... although the SC-27 appeared to have the edge (I'd like to think it was my superior sailing, but I know better... the SC-27's longer waterline length and much larger chute might have had something to do with it).


    I really like the sailing characteristics of the B25. It was on my short list of boats years ago. I went with a SC-27 both due to timing/logistics and the feeling that it was a more robust offshore boat. That being said, the B25 in PSSA did very well on some very rough condition wintertime offshore races without issue.

    Mark
    Last edited by Mark K; 09-30-2012 at 01:35 PM.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobJ View Post
    I re-read your criteria - do I have this right?

    1) 20'-25'
    2) Ramp-launchable, stored mast-up
    3) Because of (2), lifting or swing keel
    4) Single-handed ocean racing and cruising
    5) Sit-in vs. sit-on cockpit

    Depending on where you sail (how much wind), "ocean" may not fit here and you're probably looking at one boat to mess around with locally and a different boat someday for the ocean racing - this is not a bad approach at all.

    Unless it's a centerboarder, I don't think you can have cockpit seats and a planing boat in this size - the extra structure weighs too much. I can't think of one. The closest fit is probably an Ultimate 24. It's a fine boat but I'd not take one to Hawaii, especially solo. Plus there are very few around.

    If you can find a yard with a hoist your options widen significantly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
    Richard,

    How about a B25? It is easily trailerable and has a lifting keel... Though no "sit-in" cockpit. There are several in So Cal although I don't know of any for sale right now. It rates 138, the same as my SC-27 down here. We had one in the PSSA for some time and it did very well once dialed-in. It has its sweet spots. It would walk away from the entire fleet in the light air drifters and would start surfing and full-out planing long before my SC-27 (winds in the mid to upper teens). In winds inbetween we were very close... although the SC-27 appeared to have the edge (I'd like to think it was my superior sailing, but I know better... the SC-27's longer waterline length and much larger chute might have had something to do with it).

    I really like the sailing characteristics of the B25. It was on my short list of boats years ago. I went with a SC-27 both due to timing/logistics and the feeling that it was a more robust offshore boat. That being said, the B25 in PSSA did very well on some very rough condition wintertime offshore races without issue.

    Mark
    Thanks again to all of you for your replies. They are quite helpful.

    Please let me clarify my criteria a little. I sail between Long Beach and San Diego. I prefer Long Beach because of the breakwater and generally stronger winds. They also have hoists for boat launching. However, we bought a retirement home in Oceanside, CA, and plan to move there when I can get my wife to retire. Oceanside has slips and ramp launching (no hoists) and the winds there (between Newport Beach and San Diego) tend to be light. I am a fair weather sailor and my ocean voyaging aspirations do not exceed occasional sails to Catalina Island. But, I do like to race now and then. Also:

    1.) Faster boats are more fun than slower boats
    2.) 20’ - 25” desired length, even though longer boats tend to be faster
    3.) Single-handed coastal cruising and racing
    4.) A fixed keel is fine until we move to Oceanside (in a year or two.) After that, a fixed keel is still okay IF I can find a reasonably priced slip and can tolerate hull cleaning, painting, and other additional maintenance. (I prefer dry storage.)
    5.) The other alternative for Oceanside is a boat with a movable keel so it can be ramp launched and stored, mast-up, on a trailer.
    6.) “Sit-in not on” is a preference, not a requirement. It depends upon the boat, I guess.
    7.) If I get two boats, the smaller will probably be a catamaran.

    Thanks for the B-25 and U-25 suggestions. They look interesting - especially for trailer boats. Will they give a Moore 24 a run for the money? Do you know anything about a: SR 25, Beneteau First 235, Santana 23 D, S2 6.9, SR 21, US 21, or Ultimate 20? They are lifting keel boats, but I know nothing about them.

    This post is getting too long. The easiest thing I can ask is what boats (20’ - 25’) do you see at your racing events? How do they do in the races? In addition to the B-25, are any of them movable keel boats? I hope to develop two short lists, one for fixed keel and the other for movable keep boats.

    Thanks for your help and patience, Richard
    Last edited by rlltrash; 10-01-2012 at 04:18 PM.

  5. #15
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    Sep 2007
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    Here is the information page from our last race. Click on Fleet Assignments and you'll have a representative list.

    http://www.jibeset.net/JACKY000.php?RG=T001862026

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobJ View Post
    Here is the information page from our last race. Click on Fleet Assignments and you'll have a representative list.

    http://www.jibeset.net/JACKY000.php?RG=T001862026
    Thanks, Bob. Well, back to the drawing board. I guess that confirms my earlier impression that most single-handed ocean racers sail boats >25'.

    Let me change the subject a little. Have any of you ever seen small (< 26') Trimarans in single-handed races? I just came upon some information on Corsair Trimarans (24, F-24, & 750) and Dragonfly Trimarans (25 & 800). Do you know anything about these - or any similar size trimarans? Are they OK for solo sailing? Off shore racing?

    Richard

  7. #17
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    Richard, you might also browse the race result archives http://sfbaysss.org/results.html to get a wider picture of what's been raced in SSS. We do have fair numbers of Cal 20s and Santana 22s.

    We get Corsair/F/Sprint 24/750s too. But most of the regular posters here are monohullers. You might check out Bay Area Multihull Association, sfbama.org, for more info on those.

    Max

  8. #18
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    Thanks again;

    I did a little more checking this morning on Trimarans. It looks like they are Expensive! I will check with sfbama. This might be yet another false start.

    Richard

  9. #19
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    Seattle, Washington USA
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    Lurking a bit and enjoying the discussion; I was wondering about the french boats? Hearing about the boats you race, has really expanded my concept of a safe offshore boat, but I was wondering (besides the cockpit size and drainage) what specific characteristics do you look for in deciding if a boat is reasonable capable of surviving heavy weather if encountered (bottom line, that's what we are really talking about - right?)?

  10. #20
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    Well, surviving is certainly better than the alternative! When I looked for my single-handed racer, I looked for a 30'ish footer with an offshore racing pedigree, easily-handed systems (sprit, a-sail, fractional rig), clear, wide side decks mostly free of tripping hazards, an inboard (to charge batteries for the autopilot), mostly OSR Cat 2-3 compliant from the factory, and with a good "row-away" factor.

    It also depends how competitive you are. Besides being sturdy enough to romp around in the Gulf of the Farallones, you may want a boat that can sail close to its rating single-handed. The WylieCat 30 is the best example - it struggles to sail to its rating with full crew but sails better than its rating SH or DH.

    What are some examples of French boats to which you refer? (I'll look at their photos and spec's on Yachtworld.)
    Last edited by BobJ; 10-09-2012 at 09:27 AM.

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