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Thread: Pacific Coast Shorthanded Boat

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    San Francisco Bay Area
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    1,601

    Default Pacific Coast Shorthanded Boat

    This is something that I've thought about more than once but never really went anywhere with. I kind of doubt that there's anything like enough traction to make it fly, but....


    If you all were to dream up a single or doublehanded boat that would be specific to the USA.... a boat that could handily do races in So Cal, SF Bay, The Columbia river, Puget Sound, Chesapeake Bay, Florida, New Orleans, The Great Lakes AND do the SHTP and the Bermuda 1-2...a "one design".... what would it look like?

    Mini's are too small, don't really go to windward very well, break too much and cost too much.
    Open 40's are WAY too big.
    Figaro II's are in the ball park, but still way to expensive at $120K+

    Probably the closest thing is the Express 27, but if you all were going to update it, how would you do it, what would you change, what would it look like?
    S-2 7.9: "Wildcat of Loch Awe"
    1968 Selmer Series 9 B-flat and A clarinets
    1962Buesher "Aristocrat" tenor saxophone
    Piper One Design 24, Hull #35; "Alpha"

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    103

    Default

    Here is my wish list:
    - LOA somewhere around 10 meters
    - Direction stability
    - Strong
    - Well balanced performance: upwind, downwind, reaching
    - Large main, small non-overlapping jib, masthead & fractional spinnakers, outboard shrouds
    - No running backs
    - Small cockpit w/ open transom
    - Tiller
    - One rudder
    - Diesel inboard w/ retractable prop
    - D/L 120-150
    - Small
    - Chines (because they look cool)
    - Comfy interior with Headroom & "hang out" factor
    - Canting keel or a small amount of water ballast would be great for upwind comfort, if the systems can be simple & robust
    - Weird, but I'm ambivalent about sprits

    I guess a few boats have aspects of this, but none have the whole package. Boats that dance around my wish list are ones like:
    Olson 34, J92, J105, Col 32

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    521

    Default

    Pogo 1050? Boy, if I had any money ...

  4. #4
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    Apr 2010
    Location
    San Diego, CA
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    25

    Default

    The new Pogo 30 looks very nice too... that swinging keel...

    I've been reading a lot about pacific proas lately, first drawings of what could be a very interesting one: Bieker's 32' proa .

    Different but very interesting...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    103

    Default Proa?

    Quote Originally Posted by koh samia View Post
    The new Pogo 30 looks very nice too... that swinging keel...

    I've been reading a lot about pacific proas lately, first drawings of what could be a very interesting one: Bieker's 32' proa .

    Different but very interesting...
    Well, whomever created the preliminary drawings doesn't seem to know how a proa tacks. The rig has to swing 180 degrees.

    I remember Rory Nugent's proa in Bermuda in 1979. There is a reason you don't see them around much. Sure enough he capsized less than a year later in mid-ocean.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    San Diego, CA
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    25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar View Post
    Well, whomever created the preliminary drawings doesn't seem to know how a proa tacks. The rig has to swing 180 degrees.
    Agree, but it's a "pacific proa" design, and those keep the ama always to windward, so the boom rotates to leeward and then they hoist a jib on the 'new' bow.

    And, if you google "Russell Brown" and "proa" you may find pages like:

    http://www.clcboats.com/life-of-boat...-on-proas.html
    or
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEFFS6cA5jQ

    Pretty impressive..

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar View Post
    I remember Rory Nugent's proa in Bermuda in 1979. There is a reason you don't see them around much. Sure enough he capsized less than a year later in mid-ocean.
    Yes (an "atlantic proa" in this case, with the ama always to leeward), there have been lots of multihulls that have capsized or monohulls that lost their keel, including some proas, but I think that should not DSQ them.. just need to keep looking for the right settings for fast-safe trips...

    In any case, I think the pacific proa (with ama always to windward) is more like a monohull with the keel just out of the water (ie: speed-dream) than a catamaran... and I really like it!

  7. #7
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    Sep 2007
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    San Francisco Bay Area
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    Default

    I've always thought that 28 feet was about the right size.

    Bepox 8.50







    I think that Bepox is out of business. The 8.50's seem to go used in Europe for about 40-45,0000 euros. I think it would be really interesting to hand a list of parameters to a well known designer, maybe Jim Antrim and see what he came up with.

    Personally?

    27-29 feet
    large mainsail, small foretriangle, running backstays not really wanted but I'd deal with it if the rig had to have them.
    skippers choice of asymmetrical or symmetrical chutes
    balanced performance... not just an offwind rocket
    no canting keel, no water ballast. Simple boat
    Disp/Length 120-150
    sleeping facilities for two, some way to set up a stove at sea, an actual chart table, or nav station of some kind.
    relatively small cockpit
    coachroof extends 2 feet back over cockpit to form an alcove so you can be on deck, but really out of the spray.
    tiller-steered
    S-2 7.9: "Wildcat of Loch Awe"
    1968 Selmer Series 9 B-flat and A clarinets
    1962Buesher "Aristocrat" tenor saxophone
    Piper One Design 24, Hull #35; "Alpha"

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    3,069

    Default

    I know non-overlappers are all the rage but I'd really miss being able to fly a #1 when it's light - and even sometimes when it's not. A bigger jib on a reaching lead (or JT) and reefed main is the bomb on my boat in the ocean.

    When you guys get done describing your perfect boat it's a J/92 . . . but I'm biased!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    San Mateo
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    124

    Default

    I like Bob's boat but. Isn't the boring Wylie Cat 30 the perfect boat?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Santa Rosa
    Posts
    578

    Default Wyliecat 30

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil MacFarlane View Post
    I like Bob's boat but. Isn't the boring Wylie Cat 30 the perfect boat?
    I agree, naturally, about the Wyliecat 30 as the nearly perfect singlehander. Boring? Not really, but I understand different folks have different levels of boredom. For such a simple appearing rig, I can only say the infinite sail shape possibilities keep me pretty busy most of the time. Easy to be lulled into complacency. The pluses are pretty evident. Other than "boredom" there are a few minuses. One is the complication to vane steering created by the sheet when jibing and tacking. The "sheet of death" sweeps most anything above the lifelines as it comes across. I've thought out several ways to mitigate this issue, but since I don't plan a singlehanded sail to Hawaii, I haven't gone further than diagrams. The others I might cite are also minor - in my opinion. As always, I'm open to taking anyone interested out on a Wyliecat to se for themselves. I do caution that looking up at a mast that's not standing stiff and straight can bring a Viagra moment to some traditional sailors.
    Pat Broderick "NANCY" Wyliecat 30 #28890

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