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Thread: sss hmb and ncorc rules

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnS View Post
    Pat,

    As others have already mentioned you should be able to connect a hand held gps to your fixed mount dsc capable vhf and meet the requirements for the house radio. For the hand held vhf you are likely in the same situation as I am: need to spend $$ before January next year (provided the SSS adheres to the NCORC recs). What model of fixed mount vhf is on your boat?

    My comment about the benefits of the gps enabled dsc radio call are more related to the rapid transmission of location. It can take a bit of time for an epirb or plb to get that information back to SAR, especially for the older, non-gps enabled beacons. (I believe the numbers are something on the order of as much as an hour or more for non-gps epirb's which rely on doppler shift measurements to determine a location. The gps enabled beacons should be able to send a location in minutes and perhaps on first transmit with those beacons that connect to an external gps to have a location pre-loaded.) The other advantages I can see in the vhf dsc call are that it goes to every dsc enabled radio in range (this has already been mentioned) and you are likely to be in communication with CG very quickly. We all know that the hand held vhf more than likely saved two lives when Heat Wave lost her keel. If the radio they had retrieved from the boat and used to call the CG had been dsc and gps enabled, their location would have been sent along with the distress call, which would have been a great aid to the SAR efforts. As it was the CG's ability to tell the Heat Wave crew to look for the pilot boat and the ability of Heat Wave to guide the pilot boat to their location. I tend to think of radios and beacons as complimentary devices and if I were to find myself in a situation like Heat Wave I am sure I would activate the beacon and get on the radio, look for my voo-doo doll and whatever else was at hand to help. So much for my 2 cents on the matter.
    John, My SH is a GX2100 and was "new" in 2010 when I purchased it for the LongPac. It cost about $400. It's old technology now, and I'm not even sure the model # is still offered. As I've written, I have my Gamin 478 (also ancient technology) hooked up to it. I can't take it with me when I exit the boat! And it probably wouldn't work upside down in the water if my keel fell of and by some miracle the hull stayed afloat with me hanging onto the rudder, ala Heat Wave style.
    Here's an online source: <standardhorizon.factoryoutletstore.com> that seems to have good prices on marine radios, but you can also check with <defender.com>. I know the Factory Outlet Store has downloads of the owners manuals so you can read the details. I think they also sell the other brands, so you might be able to do some feature/cost comparisons.
    My understanding about CG Permits for 2013 is that an EPIRB/PLB is the communication requirement of choice. As I've repeated over and over (tired of hearing?) I sail out there with my PLB attached to my Spinlock PFD and my WM HT (HAM lingo!) on a strap around my neck. I want my HT attached to me so it won't be swept out of my hand as it was on Heat Wave. I'm seriously thinking of asking for an ICOM M92D DSC/Handheld VHF Radio (WM $300) for my birthday on March 28 (hint, hint!) so I can register it and take it with me on the BAMA Farallones on March 30. See you in 2 weeks at the Awards.

  2. #52
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    I'm not on the NorCalORC safety/equipment committee but I recall Andy posting that they are waiting on the CG to respond about this issue. Specifically, if boats have DSC-enabled radios will the CG back off of its requirement for a 406 device (EPIRB or PLB)?

    I'm liking the DSC handheld for a MOB situation (vs. a PLB). The MOB can push the emergency call button and all the boats around (and the CG via Rescue21) will get that call. If the handheld is also GPS-enabled, the DSC call will include the MOB's position. If a nearby boat's VHF is wired to its chartplotter the MOB's position will show on that, and this is all instantaneous vs. waiting for the ERIRB or PLB signal (which may not initially include a position) to work its way back to the CG and then out to the fleet via voice transmission.

    I was thinking about this today in fact, as I was jumping around on the boat with no tether up in SP Bay. I'm getting a DSC/GPS enabled handheld regardless of what the rules require. My old handheld is 12 years old anyway, and still on its original rechargable bettery.

    Max, has anyone said if they've heard from the CG yet?
    Last edited by BobJ; 02-03-2013 at 10:28 PM.

  3. #53
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    Default Handheld VHF with DSC/GPS

    NCORC MOR Item #11 (Safety Gear): Waterproof handheld VHF radio. After 1/1/2014, this radio shall have DSC/GPS capability.

    Jackie,

    The situation being address is that you are in the water, separated from your boat, or your keel has come off, or you've lost your mast and ability to transmit. The recommendation and potential requirement is clearly based on lessons learned from a number of Gulf of the Farallones incidents involving: LOW SPEED CHASE, DAISY, HEAT WAVE and others. All of these incidents involved people in the water. Obviously, this is only applicable to near shore racing with other boats around. If you fall overboard on the SHTP it very unlikely anyone can find you in time.

    The clear advantage of a handheld DSC/GPS VHF, if you have it on your person, is:
    1. The capability to very quickly alert all other DSC equipped vessels AND the CG to your situation and position.
    2. Two-way communication with potential rescuers.

    The alternative of a PLB does not alert other vessels; it may not get a response from the CG for as much as a hour or longer while they wait for a fix and verify that it's not a false alarm; AND it's one-way communication. I have been on the bridge of a large vessel when a DSC/VHF emergency was activated. It was quite impressive: alarms go off and the signal position was immediately shown on the vessels chart plotter.

    Jackie, I'm not sure from your earlier post that you know that your fixed mount DSC/VHF must either have an internal GPS or be interfaced with a GPS to be DSC functional. There are statistics that some vast majority of DSC/VHF radios are not properly installed.

    Tom
    Last edited by Dazzler; 02-04-2013 at 02:05 AM.

  4. #54
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    Tom, you said it more clearly than I did - thanks.

    My old Icom 402 (fixed mount VHF) had DSC capability and I even had an MMSI, but I never put it in the radio. Also, I never wired the GPS to it. It sounds like I was in good company.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobJ View Post
    Max, has anyone said if they've heard from the CG yet?
    Not that I'm aware of.

    To clarify a point that someone brought up a few posts back, the NCORC recommendations are not intended to apply to any races farther than the Farallones or Monterey. That leaves out Coastal Cup, LongPac and the Hawaii races.

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